Forum Activity for @Sebastian

Dave - a micrometer can be a very precise tool, but you have to know how to use it, and have to have one that is accurate enough. I can make any micrometer read 8um if i turn it hard enough (it'll crush whatever's in there) - adding a pressure gauge can help rectify that. Also, dispersing your chocolate in 3 parts mineral oil will also give you a much more accurate reading on it.

Regarding sugar, the biggest impact will be on the starting size of your sugar. Organic refined sugar is going to chemically be identically to non-organically refined sugar (almost always). The larger the starting granulation, the more problematic. The second most important element will be the color of the sugar -sugars are measured with what's called an ICUMSA scale. The higher that ICUMSA number, the more 'dirty' the sugar is, and the greater the impact on your product. White table sugar is somewhere between 20-50 ICUMSA, for reference. "Turbinado" and similar sugars may have ICUMSA ratings of over 400.

Simple solution: put more pressure on the wheels and conche longer.

Remember: The Santha was never designed to make chocolate. You may need to leave it in the machine a lot longer than you would expect. 48-72 hours is not unrealistic.

Cheers

Brad

Following is a recent post from our "Shared Journey" discussion in the Start-up Central Group:

Still struggling with the texture of our chocolate. It's better since we started using the micrometer to make sure the max particle size is sub-25 microns, but still "powdery" (not actually gritty, but definitely not smooth like it should be). Seeking the wisdom of the crowd and those who have gone before. We're doing our conching/refining in a Santha 11, if that helps. We're running some tests on (improvised) conching after refining, improving our tempering, adding cocoa butter (some of our chocolate is a lot more viscous than others). Any thoughts for which rocks to turn over first??

Since posting this I (think) I've figured out that our "sub-25 micron" chocolate really isn't. Using a micrometer to measure the maximum particle size is not incredibly precise -- and the biggest variable so far has been....me. If I stop at the first sign of resistance I'm measuring more like 30 microns. Up until now I've been using the micrometer the way I always have, but it appears that with chocolate you can very easily crush a 30+ micron particle and get a reading quite a bit below what you really have.

I'm also interested in hearing what you think about sugar as a factor (or not) in final texture. We've tried several different organic sugars, as well as highly refined table sugar, and I'm wondering if the organic sugars behave differently because of what isn't removed.

Would love to hear your thoughts, trials, and tribulations!

Cheers,

David

I will commence distributing bars to candy stores and my second line option are pastry/bakery shops that targets middle class.

The chocolate bars are 1 onz., 4 flavors all in a single stand with one dozen each. The chocolate is premium quality, they are really great and my focus are the marginal flavors not found at supermarket and already study market as top picks. Regarding package is really bland, just a cellophane with a top sticker. The pretend number are 50 bars per month in each store.

I will like to know how you appreciated this concept and if chocolate at this type of stores is a good idea? Has anyone try this and which has been your experience?

Hello Everyone,

This is my first time posting and I am very excited as I have just started my chocolate journey. I have recently made my first batch of chocolate and I am looking for some feedback on ways to improve everything about my process. So here is goes...

I am using a CocoaTown ECGC-12SL melanger. I have decided not to roast my beans (a discussion for later as I would like to hear people's thoughts on roasting vs non-roasting).

So from the un-roasted cocoa nib (I did 400g of them) I then ground them into a fine paste and put them in the melanger. After 12 hours of them being ground down they were at the liquid stage, and I then added 120g (30% by weight) of sugar that I had pre-whipped in a food processor to make it powdered sugar to the melanger. After another 3 hours I stopped the machine and decided the chocolate was at the stage I wanted it.

when I stuck my spoon into the still liquid chocolate I was surprised that it was not half bad for my first try but at the same time it stuck to my teeth in a DRY-like manner. I am not quite sure how to explain it, it was not gummy or unrefined (it was very smooth without any large sugar or nib pieces) but it had this dry like quality.

So I decided to temper it anyways and placed it in molds. The next day I came back to taste the chocolate again and it still had this dry texture that usually presented itself on the second bite of a piece. I am not sure if I may need to add more cocoa butter to smooth this out of what.

Like a I said before my chocolate only has the nibs (a crillio variety) and powdered sugar (I powered it myself). Could it possibly be that because I powdered the sugar myself that this dry quality came into effect?

Thank you very much in advance, this forum is a an incredible crucible of knwledge!

-Ian H.

Email me: louie@nohmadsnackco.com

I might be able to help you.

Louie

Nate, welcome to The Chocolate Life! There are quite a number of LA chocolatiers - your best bet may be to research them and reach out individually.

We made a Pinterest map of the chocolatiers and chocolate makers we know about. This mayhelp get you started!

http://www.pinterest.com/chocolatetour/los-angeles-chocolate/

Into the Wonka river I go.....

Hello everyone,

I just joined and I hope that I will be able to add to the forum in the near future.

Im very new to the whole Chocolate business and i'm here to learn.

I've been reading some posts and I've already found a lot of helpful information, So thank you guys for that. I can appreciate what a privlidge it is to be here.

I grew up in Chicago and for the last 15 years I call Los Angeles my home.

I'm looking for a Chocolatier that can make my boutique Chocloate bars.

I would like to use a california based (Hopefully LA) company.

Thank you in advance for any advice or help.

Nate

Thank you so much Ruth and Jim! I really, truly appreciate all the help. Jim, I couldn't agree more about some molds being TINY. When I was at Gygi I was astonished at how miniscule nearly ALL the molds were! They only had one that I would have considered usable. In my mind chocolates should be larger than one bite. I'll research your suggestions on weight. I have seen some molds that have specific dimension. The one mold (fat daddios) at Gygi thatI liked the size of was a little over an inch wide (it was a dome, with a "swirl" decoration).Ideally, I'd like to just buy a few molds that I'll go toover and over again, rather than investing TONS of money inmolds that once I know what I'm doing I regret havingpurchased.

I have been making chocolates/bon bons/pralines for a little over a year, but can offer a bit of advice-based on my positive and negative experiences--on molds. At first I didn't realize that the molds differed considerably in what size finished piece they turn out, and as a result, I initially purchased some quite small molds. A lot of people like smaller chocolates, but I found them difficult to fill and too small to provide a good taste of the filling (perhaps I am just making excuses for gluttony!). Then I learned that many manufacturers provide a guide to size by specifying the weight of the finished chocolate. I find this guide counterintuitive--it's the volume of the cavity one cares about, not the weight of the product, and nobody has explained what they weighed to determine the figure (is it the weight of a piece of solid dark chocolate or ...?)--but weight is all there is to go on and it does provide a useful aid. I have found that weights between 11 and 16 grams per piece work best for me. I have some dome-shaped molds that hold 18g, and they are particularly good for two-layer pralines or one that has a whole hazelnut submerged in a praline filling. So far no recipient has complained about the larger size, and these do not look out of proportion in a box with smaller pieces.

In the U.S. I have bought online from J.B. Prince in NYC, Tomric in Buffalo, NY, and Chef Rubber in Las Vegas. Bakedeco.com also has lots of molds, but their images are very small. J.B. Prince has good prices and quick service, but they do not provide weights to help (that's how I ended up with small molds in the beginning). Tomric has a very large selection, and they carry (or can obtain) anything from chocolateworld.be in Belgium. BUT--and it can be a big issue--most Chocolate World molds take at least the 3-4 weeks stated on the Tomric website to arrive, or longer. Just remember that when you shop online, don't go by how large or small the mold looks in the image.

As for purchasing chocolate, I use chocosphere.com. They have a huge selection and carry just about every mainstream chocolate. They also sell smaller amounts (such as 1 Kg bags) so it's possible to try various options without breaking the bank. They have good customer service and quick delivery. I have also bought from Gygi (but, as Ruth said, only Callebaut). Worldwidechocolate.com is very similar to Chocosphere in their offerings; they have free shipping on orders over $99, but the base prices are a bit higher than Chocosphere's. Their offerings are, in my opinion, somewhat more limited than Chocosphere's (for example, World Wide Chocolate does not carry 1-Kg blocks of Amedei and does not have Felchlin at all).

I think Callebaut would be a good chocolate to start. Look at their website to decide among all the choices, and note the drops system that tells you how viscous the chocolate will be when melted.

Jim

There are so many ways to answer your questions. I would order your molds on line after you figure out what you want. As to chocolate, again, depends on a lot of factors. The only chocolate that Gygi carries that I would consider is Callebaut. Bakers C&C carries a lot more options. We can talk in April.

Ok, my husband wants to take the class with me (FUN!) so, I'll be registering us both tomorrow. I also bought a copy of your book!!

If I wanted to buy a little bit of chocolate to fool around with what brand chocolate should I start with? I have a tempering machine (Rev1 by chocovision). Also any suggestions on polycarbonate molds? I was at Orson Gygi and saw Fat Daddios molds and LOTS of different kinds of chocolate. Thanks for all your help! I can't wait to meet you in April!

Thanks, yes, I have Chocolot:). To register call 801.393.2230. Be sure and let me know who you are.

Thanks for all the great suggestions!! Larry, thanks for the website suggestions! I think those are great places to start! Larry, are you ahobbyist or a professional? Ruth, I'd love to register for your class in April! I assume I contact Love to Cook to do that? I wish I could come to the Natural History Museum on the 22 or 23rd, but I'm attending Cookie Con (a convention for cookie nerds!!) and am already booked. As a side note, Ruth are you from Chocolat?!?! If you are, I am absolutely I love with your work. You are such an artist!

Hi Arianna, I teach classes in Salt Lake, Ogden and Logan. My next class is scheduled at Love to Cook in Ogden, April 12. Not sure what I will be teaching, but it will involve chocolate:). Other than that, I will be teaching at Bakers C&C, Gygi's and Love To Cook in Logan, in the Fall. Come to the Natural History Museum on March 22-23 and meet many of us local chocolatiers at the Chocolate Festival.

Araianna,

Gygi's will have two days of chocolate classes each November. Those are really helpful. They may have some through the other times of the year.

Ruth Kendrick taught some classes last year, I'm not sure if any classes are on her schedule right now though.

Beyond that Valhrona TV http://www.valrhonaprofessionals.com/valrhona-TV.html is pretty useful. So is Callebaut TV http://www.callebaut.com/usen/callebauttv is pretty good too.

Ecole Chocolat http://www.ecolechocolat.com/ is good.

The chocolate apprentice http://chocolateapprentice.com/ has a great blog about what she learned at the Ecole Chocolat.

Welcome to the Chocolate Life!

I encourage you to visit cocoatown.com. You can receive online classes becoming available very soon . The classes will be taught by our own "Top Chef" Erika Davis as well as by the owner of cocoatown Dr. Balu, whom teaches the scientific process of creating great chocolate. We also sell every product that you may need in-order to create chocolate from the bean to the bar.

I've always been interested in making chocolates (I made them as a very little girl with my Nana) and want to start. I've recently purchased a Chocovision Minirev and need to buy a few molds. My understanding is polycarbonate is the best way to go (right??). I'd love to take a class, or classes. Is there a place to find ones in Utah? I've searched the web to no avail. Suggestions? If I can't get classes, are there videos or online classes that are great? I'm open to any and all suggestions. I am just a hobbyist. Thank you so very much!!

I will be available from the 3rd to the 13th of May. Let's talk to make specific arrangements and find out what you want to see. tmforbes@yahoo.com

Hey Thomas - I am currently making test batches of chocolate using Conacado and would love to join you! I live in Los Angeles but will be available to travel with you. Please let me know! david@littlebrownsquares.com

I have a few picture on lachorena.com. The website needs some new pictures and I am sure he knows Miguel. He does everything except a stone type melanger. He does a roller refiner and than a separate conch.

I'm in Santo Domingo, la capital, however my mentor is from San Francisco, so I'm pretty sure he might know Mr. Hernandez.

Do you know what equipment is Miguel manufacturing?

Miguel Hernandez from San Francisco de Macoris. Where are you located.

If anyone is interested in visiting the Dominican Republic between May 2nd and the 12 or so, I would be happy to show you, who and what I know about cacao and chocolate in the country. Every trip I learn more and meet new people. Eventually I would like to organize small groups to take a chocolate trip to the DR and this could be sort of a test run. I would not charge anything except some help with gas in the rent a car.

My main contacts there are centered around CONACADO and some of the bloques. I also have some access to people at Munne, Rizek, Roig and Cortes Hermanos. The Sendero de Cacao run by the Rizek's is a must visit. There are also a number of rural based rural women associations who make drinking chocolate and some are getting financing and machines to to some decent processing and other products. These groups are a lot of fun to visit and always right in the middle of different cacao growing regions. I also work closely with the person who manufactures the machines locally. He has recently installed four new, small processing plants and he can't wait to show me.

I always stop by and visit my friends at the Red de Guaconejo, a small well run farmer cooperative. There are many other farmer type associations and cooperatives I have read about and will eventually make contact. It is always a delight to meet Orlando Rodriquez and tour the Insitutito at Mata Larga. I can not say enough about the respect I have for his contribution to improving cacao production in the DR at the small farm level. I spend as much time as I can there during my visits.

Diana Munne runs the best and only chocolate shop in the Capital. I can only really buy decent eating chocolate from Diana and at the Sendero while I am in the country. I have tasted really good liquor at CONACADO.

These are the things I do when I am in the Dominican Republic and would love to share this with others. I used to get around on a motorcycle but have moved up to renting a car. I was a Peace Corps volunteer in the country 27 years ago and am married into a cacao growing family 24 years ago. I speak very good Dominican Spanish and know how to safely move around the country. Let me know.

Al -

The only reason I can see for their being an R200 Legend and an R200 is that they are NOT interchangeable. In fact, the prices are quite different.

Selmi is being smart at reusing the sheet metal for one machine on another and changing only the badging. However, there has to be something different between the Legend and the PLUS EX (probably internally) to account for the price difference.

If you really want to know the difference, contact Selmi. In the US that would be Tomric, but you are in the UK.

Ok, but i'm a bit confused..

Selmi currently sell:

Selmi Plus Ex: http://www.selmi-chocolate.it/en/prodotti.asp?id_categoria=1&id=4#specifiche

Selmi Legend: http://www.selmi-chocolate.it/en/prodotti.asp?id_categoria=1&id=36#specifiche

They used to also sell a Selmi Plus (no removable screw) - This has now disappeared from the site and there is now the Legend.

An old Selmi Plus has just been added for sale onto here, which looks just like the Legend.

http://www.thechocolatelife.com/group/classifiedsforsaleorwanted/forum/topics/selmi-plus

Surely the Ghana, old model Plus and now the Legend are the same machines, which would mean all but the newest Selmi Plus Ex would fit the R200 enrobing belts?

Hope all that makes sense!

Al -

The Legend is the old Selmi Ghana. The Plus is what replaced the Ghana. Both the Plus and the Legend are on the Selmi web site.

Is it the old Selmi Ghana, or the old Selmi Plus, or are they both the same thing?

Jonathan -

The "new" Selmi Legend is the old Selmi Ghana. It's been reintroduced as a low-cost alternative to the Plus. The Legend R200 may not the same as the R200 for the Plus, so I would be careful about ordering a used R200 and make sure it fits the Legend before you buy it.

1) The only way to make sure the R200 is in workable condition is to put it on a working machine. The only thing you may see that's visible that you want to check on is to make sure that there are no obvious kinks in the belt. Of course, the kinks may not be noticeable until the belt is in motion.

2) The EX refers to the fact that the auger is removable. The Color is the same price price as the Legend but has a working bowl capacity of 12kg versus 25kg. Also, the Color does not accept the standard R200 enrober attachment. Most continuous tempering machines will accept inclusions up to a particular size (about 3mm) and up to a certain percentage, by weight, with respect to the quantity of chocolate (usually no more than about 10%). I would check with Selmi to make sure what the max size of inclusions is, but that's what the FBM supports. The major disadvantage of the Legend over the Color is that the Legend does not have the removable auger. This will make changing over from one chocolate to another a more laborious and time-consuming process. Keep in mind that changing over chocolate is not something you want to do on a daily basis and especially not more than once per day.

3) The tempering times quoted are not from a cold start. They are from the moment you press the tempering button with a full bowl of chocolate at the set melting point. You need to be aware of this in your timing calculations.

I represent FBM to ChocolateLife members around the world and we have installed a decent number of machines in Australia in the past two years. The FBM Compatta is a 12kg working bowl machine similar to the Color at about the same price. A major difference is that the Compatta accepts an enrober attachment and the Compatta's enrober is more than 2000 less expensive than the R200.

FBM recently introduced ProXima, a new version of their flagship 25kg machine, Unica. One of the reasons I work with FBM over Selmi is that I feel that the important parts of the machines - the internal engineering of the tempering pipe, the tempering auger, and the rest of the tempering system - is superior to Selmi. Yeah, the Selmi has better-looking sheet metal, but in the end, I think most people need a machine that works more than they want a machine that looks good. Plus ChocolateLife members get 10% off list prices, making them even more price-competitive.

Hi,

I am looking to get some of my chocolates co packed. I am not sure what my agreements can cover for recipe protection, direct sale of the same product to other customers etc. If anyone has experience or suggestions - any advice would be welcome.

Thanks,

Anjali

Brad, thank you so much. You have provided me with more information than Savage has provided me. So far the liquor holds up well for me to fill molds, put in the refrigerator for an hour or so, and do another batch. If I try this the third time, it is thick and a little harder to work. I have read on another post about pouring more melted chocolate in the machine without having to run the tempering cycle again. I am purchasing a 19.7 cu ft. commercial Kelvinator refrigerator with 10 shelves and will be able to hold 40 molds. That will work well and pretty much empty out almost a full tank.

I was wondering if it is necessary to hold at the melting temperature set point for 40 minutes before it starts the cooling cycle.

I started at this point in the learning curve in order to get started and hopefully do some quality work. When I work with 70-80% chocolate and am still using a small chocovision or table tempering as we develop a bar down the road.

Again, your advise and sharing of information is greatly appreciated.

Thomas;

I have two Savage machines, and me and my staff use them to make literally thousands of chocolate bars regularly. In fact just today I molded up over 400 92g bars with them.

There are a couple of tricks you can use to "Fix" chocolate that you have over-tempered with them. Chocolate globbing up around the agitator is a sign of your water temperature being too low. It is cooling the chocolate too much, and causing it to solidify on the side of the machine. The scraper picks it up, and causes the big lump you are getting.

Trick 1: when cooling (tempering) your chocolate, don't have your water temp in the kettle so cold.

Trick 2:If the chocolate gets too thick in the machine, your working temperature is too low and the chocolate is over-crystalizing. You can thin it out by pouring 4-5 litres into 8 or 10 litre bowl, heating it to 45 degrees over a double boiler and then pouring it back into the machine. That much chocolate at that high of a temperature will not take over-crystalized chocolate out of temper. In fact it will probably only raise the overall temperature of the chocolate, maybe 1 degree F. I do it all the time if we need to temper chocolate quickly. You can do this as often as you like to get the viscosity you are looking for.

One other thing: Higher percentage chocolate (80% through to liquor) that has no lecithin in it will become VERY thick, and is difficult to work with even for someone experienced with those machines. You will find that as you work with chocolate like that, your water jacket temperature will have to be about 3 degrees F LOWER than your working temperature in order to keep your working temperature consistent. Chocolateasviscous as 80% +creates it's own friction and heat as it's being agitated. Having your kettle temperature and working temperature the same will almost always lead to overheated chocolate. Dark Chocolate of lower percentages generally doesn't behave this way at all (at least that's what I have found).

You have chosen to start at the top of the learning curve. Good luck with that. All I can tell you is to expect failure and be patient. I failed lots at first.

Cheers

Brad

Thank you Ruth, I have been working with the machine for 2 days now and will continue until I move it to a rented commercial kitchen. I am molding 3.4 oz. half cacao pod to be used for drinking. I first tried a bread proofer then table tempering and just didn't feel comfortable leaving it in the proofer overnight in the rented kitchen. I also thought the molds might set at room temperature but will need the help of a cooling unit for a short time. I am really only looking for a nice shine being you can not break it with your hand, it is too thick, so the snap is irreverent.

Are you looking at the water temp or the chocolate temp? On the Savage, it takes a bit of practice. I don't drop the temp, but rather seed. I can hold temper for at least a day. I love my machines, but it does take a while to learn how to use them.

Thanks Clay, with the tank full, it is holding up fine after about 5 hours. I am only able to fit 6 molds at a time in the refrigerator (right now) to cool them down for about an hour. As long as I leave them in until they are completely separated from the molds, they are holding their shine. Doing some reading on the static cooling tunnels you have on the site.

Just filled some more molds and it is started to glob again and I caught it early. 87.5 is the holding temperature and it is still getting thick. Doing another reheat.

Thomas:

Every chocolate has its own tempering curve. The ones that Chocovision use are just guidelines and do not work for all chocolates.

Plus you are working with liquor that has no added cocoa butter? It's going to be a lot harder to find the proper temperatures to work with. It's an art, as much as it is a science.

The reasons you are getting different temperature readings between the infrared thermometer and the sensor inside the machine is that you're not measuring the temperature at the same place.

Hello all and looking for a little advice on molding chocolate liquor. I recently purchased a 50 lbs. Savage Brothers melter-tempering machine. After running it, trying to learn how to use it. I was wondering if using 100%, ground (25 micons) liquor would need different temperature settings than I am used to with dark chocolate on the small chocovision tempering machine. The factory settings are melt to 110 F, drop to 82 F and rise to 88 F. I first used 115, 82, 88 and 110, 82, 88 and another at 110, 85.5 to 88.

When it cools down, I use a temperature gun and the top of chocolate is 2 degrees lower than the reading on the panel but evens out as it goes back up with the gun and the reading on the panel. It is thicker than I am used to working with and twice as seized as globs of chocolate built up around the agitators. The first time I thought maybe a little water was hidden after I washed, dried, and heat gun dried it, after it arrived. Cleaned it out again, dried and let sit over night and heat gun dried again. It did the same thing after it was sitting in temper for a couple of hours. The temperature on the panel said 87.8 but there were other globs of chocolate around the agitators. I remelted and seems just fine. When I molded a few test runs, a little thick, some globbing at the outlet. Not easy to work with and need to figure out how to use the machine efficiently. I will call the technicians at Savage Brothers again on Monday but wondered if any of you had any thoughts.

I am now melting a full tank and thank you in advance. I really appreciate it.

Removing a percentage of the clips early in the cooling can help a lot with cracking.

Nicole -

Clear photos would help!

Thank you, Lee, for your response! Your explanation could be the problem, and if I could inquire a little more, I'd be grateful. These molds are (big surprise!) bunnies. When you say uneven cooling, could it be that if our guy is putting more chocolate in the ears of the bunny mold, but less for the body, that that might be part of it? He hasn't told me where the molds are cracking, or if it's always in the same place, so I'll check on that. In the meantime, this is a major problem at this time of year!